Face 1910 Posted November 12, 2015 Survey Responses: 56Number of Survey Responses Deleted (not included in count of 56): 2 If you want to look at the raw responses, you can download my excel sheet here: http://puu.sh/lilzi/290719ce6c.xlsx So first I’m going to start out with the good, TL:DR friendly info… charts! Balance, 1 = atrocious 5 = perfect Change in Balance, 1 = much worse, 5 = much better Balance vs Change in balance: The columns represent balance and the rows represent change in balance. You can see the majority of the players believe that balance is good and/or is improving. How long players have been playing sG War3 mod How much players play every month What players think the priority of engineers should be For votes on what to nerf and buff, the results are pretty much how I expected with a couple exceptions. Out of a total of 88 races mentioned for nerfs, 65 had 3 or less votes to nerf that race (that is nearly 75% of races mentioned).Out of a total of 122 races mentioned for buffs, 92 had 3 or less votes to buff that race (that is just over 75% of races mentioned). What this means to me is that 75% of the time if you think a race needs to be nerfed or buffed (to the extent that you would list it on a survey) you are probably in the vast minority. The story still isn't very different for those races above 3 votes. A large portion of them still had less than 10% of players vote to buff or nerf them. On the buff front, only 9 races had more than 10% of players (6) vote to buff them. On the nerf front, again only 9 races had more than 10% of players vote to nerf them. Even then, the most voted for to be buffed, trickster, had only 17.9% of votes.The most voted to be nerfed, Impetus, only had 23.2% of the votes. The next race (Chogall) falls quite far behind with 17.9%. Again, what this means is that likely if you think a race needs to be nerfed or buffed then the best case scenario is that less than 1/4 people agree with you. 52 races (over a quarter of the races on the server) had votes to both nerf them and buff them. What this means is you guys disagree a lot. The following is a dump of what was input into the "Remove/Heavily Alter (nerf)" free response box (blank responses excluded):takenoLong Jump. I fucking hate it.Chogall, the majority of players sit in a corner and stare at the ground/wall and wait for someone to tether. Then pop out and shoot them getting the kill 99% of the time.pyro is cancer. Cho'galls snare needs reworking, or having it notify that someone has triggered the trap needs to be removed. neve's ult needs to get nerfed. bob is more op than adventurer. Orc needs to get nerfed so i can consume ghouls tears.Pyromanic, fire damage over and rocket(making if you shoot it will explode in mid air)Just needa balance It's an Elf of the Night.I'm still strongly in the camp that orc lightning deserves the same nerf NE got. I can talk about why I think them being different is a problem at length if neededDemon hunters respawn block % is based of the amount damage done to the person until that person dies. (for example 34 damage in 5 hits = 34% chance to block respawn)The amount of power races, 1 literally has 8 skills compared to the original 1 race:4skillsIn my opinion orc should not have the expertise to not be able to block respawns because that is the idea of the whole race and making it so that you cant stop a guy from respawning just kind of seems unfair even though it might of taken awhile to reach that expertise it just really seems unfair and basically since he only likes on race he get the perk of disabling demon hunters main ability..impetusDeadly Decoy - No offense to Centran, it just doesn't belong with the style of the server. Not that it hinders any current gameplay, but the occasional time I see a new player on it, I remember what a horrible race it is. I like the concept of having a certain time period where you're punished for shooting the race, but don't think it was executed in a meaningful manner.nerf: goddang jump regen, I think it regens about 3 hp per jump? 2 per jump would be more "balanced" imo. also: please let races with movespeed get long jump / races with long jump get boots again!All crits, all evades, and all gun races with above 40% invisibility.Demon Hunter's respawn block. Should be you have to do a certain amount of damage instead of just a touch.Zergling, burrowing has no downside, extremely anti fun to play against (can burrow for minutes, till hunters get bored, then pop out and backstab them), either remove or nerf burrow[Molecule] - Short circuit gives you an 80% chance to kill pretty much any knife race that attacks you, while you have 33% chance to take 0 damage. Please, at least make molecule's player model a different color if you don't want to nerf it. [blood Hunter] - buff the passive #'s, nerf the ultimate, or increase the cd, or decrease the range/duration.Probably ESP, but I would be fine with a call of duty style radar reveal to you.Lobotomist. Can't see shit after its ult.troll ultimate. 1 second invuln, then 80% DR for 2 seconds afterThe burn damage vision impairmentblocking orc's respawn plz nerfIt would be Bash, it is just so powerful.Duelist lunge, good players just turn it into a flying race which doesn't really appeal to its style as a melee fencer, I'd rather it not be used as a launch but maybe a long cd where u can teleport next to or infront of what ur pointing atwar3imba takenozerglingI would like it to be more clear when someone is ultimate immune.Orcish Horde. Chain lightening for the first 3-5 rounds has no counterplay and 1/3hp of >50% of the races on the server combined with crit nade makes it a vrey brain dead race. Kind of anti-funI would remove Pyromaniac, it's skills are overkill, and engineers can't seem to get a grip to fix them.I will PM you a more usefull feedback on what i think of the wcsI really don't like pyromaniac. It promotes a heavily passive playstile by rewarding the player's time with rockets. The rockets are too powerful combined with the fire passive. You also can't dodge the rockets without making them hit a teammate. I think I would be okay with pyromaniac if the rockets were dodge-able, or if you could shoot them and blow them up. (Even though that would probably be kind of hard to code)I believe the music races should be heavily altered in a good way. Not taken out, but maybe shorter cooldowns and the songs that suck might be replaced with better ones I could list ideas in another thread.Xian's blink and blink back skill.I would put a timer on the blink back so it wont happen in an instant the player will have to time it.Yes alot of people may cry about it but it adds a challenge to playing the race since i found USP-s headshots easy to hit even while not walking.And also Paradox's teleport skills i would remove the blink or the human alliance like teleport.NoneImpetus Push / PullBanshee and its bullshit scream.N/A (You're doing a awesome job)No races need to be heavily nerfed or removed. Just slight balance adjustments is all.The following is a dump of what was input as "Other" for the focus of engineers on the server.Balance is a always revolving door. But Races..more racesBalance, but I wanted to add a focus on races that people play that they seem to not really "play the game" similar to chogall just sitting in corners waiting for tethers, or shadespawn swapping people off the map (I know you fixed this, and I appreciate it!)Races/expertises in no particular order for the longevity, actually i lied. Trickster barrels cooldown reduction.. =Dserver 2 shouldn't be a priority in my opinion until we get the server we already have right and fixed.Let the community have a say in balanceEverything's pretty much balanced, though the occasional fix-up never hurts in terms of buffing underplayed stuff. New races are always nice, but would suggest a public outreach for increased submissions if you so seek to make more races on a regular basis. I'm not really into the idea of server 2 yet because I don't want you being the sole benefactor of two different servers... but you do you. QoL is nice from time to time as long as it has meaning to it - don't want stupid addons taking up your time.CURRENTLY, balance isn't an issue. nothing is too op (op as in brewmaster when it first came out and could stagger like 4 ak47 headshots). i don't think you guys should worry too much about balance for now, better players will make a race seem op while worse players will make it seem shitty. with that being said, i think bug fixing should be the #1 priority and then new races / new items.I think a 2nd server plus add more expertise.Server stability then racesnew races at lower levelI am putting other as I feel balance can be worked on but a mix of balance and quality of life would be the top for me. Still offering money for the removal of Pyro <3Don't touch anythingBalance, Bug Fixing and New Races.If a bug is severe it should be fixed first. Other than that I think engineers should work on whatever they think is needed at the current state of the server.Create a fun class for LOW LEVELS Things I immediately plan to do as a result of the surveys:Put a timer on Cho'gall mines OR they expire after hitting 1 player. The timer would be something like 20 seconds.Demon Hunter's respawn block will trigger on death of the player instead of on hit (regardless of who kills them). The chance will be calculated as the amount of damage a Demon Hunter dealt to that player divided by 100. (1dmg = 1%, 100 dmg = 100%).Give Impetus teleports a charge. This will use the overlay (i think it already might be used for teleport marks but that isn't really necessary). I was thinking something like regenerate 1 charge every 5 seconds. This allows impetus to maintain similar mobility but requires it to be a little more conservative in its teleport useage (and nullifies spamming teleport).Adding a VERY brief cooldown to Master of GO's heal on jump. All this would do is devalue sitting in a corner jumping under a ledge to heal to max HP instantly.Lowering the duration (and maybe also the intensity) of lobotomize and increasing the passive skills of Lobotomist to compensate.More will follow, probably including a poll.Thanks again. 2 Agrippa and Moose reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meowN 0 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) I love how everyone tries to hide their complaints about me behind nerfing a pretty mediocre race. The moment Impetus loses teleport, the race is fucked. That's why silences and entangles practically work as a hard counter against it. Adding charges is basically adding a built-in hard counter against the race into the race itself. Edited November 12, 2015 by meowN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 12, 2015 I love how everyone tries to hide their complaints about me behind nerfing a pretty mediocre race. The moment Impetus loses teleport, the race is fucked. That's why silences and entangles practically work as a hard counter against it. Adding charges is basically adding a built-in hard counter against the race into the race itself.I meant it would store charges (probably up to 5? 10?) so that means as long as you aren't spamming TP it would be completely unchanged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swed 2651 Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks for all the hard work Face!Imagine what you could get done if you stopped AFKing. 1 Pozhinat reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 2032 Posted November 12, 2015 Orc needs to get nerfed so i can consume ghouls tears.what a mean person, who would want ghoul to cry. 1 Pozhinat reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meowN 0 Posted November 12, 2015 And yes, thanks face for the time you've put into this and the server in general. I meant it would store charges (probably up to 5? 10?) so that means as long as you aren't spamming TP it would be completely unchanged. Spamming TP is what allows the race to exist. There are 5 beacons that you don't have a choice but to cycle through, so you can burn through 5 charges in 5 seconds just to get to the one beacon you wanted. Oops, accidentally skipped the beacon you wanted to be at? That's another 5 charges in 5 seconds. Are your logs able to track how many TPs are average per round on that race? Because I feel like this is far more significant than you think it'll be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGWENTWORTH 7 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) The complaints about ORC have to be trolling.Like... =mindblow= Bob having 100% Magic Immunity is really the only gripe I have with the race, it makes it over the top.Impet? It's not as bad as Master Sniper was, even though we all know Meown uses a hardware crosshair.Pyro is really obnoxious. It was okay maybe 4 months ago and now it seems it's even more obnoxious.I don't know why people are mad about Demon HunterRespawns don't really have a counter outside of black mage and are plentiful, it's a good way to counter priest/orc/devil servant and others (MAGNUS) As I Pm'd Face, regen giving 100 hp races 125hp is really strong and unbalancing. Damoi and Ares are good examples of very strong races who do not deserve 125hp. They basically exit the buy area with 115+ hp. Same goes for Devil Servant.... which was listed by everyone as a race of significant problem. DS really is a persistant threat due to its respawn, strong leach combined with regen. Regen serving as a straight up health boost more than a tactical or recovery ability really makes some races too strong imo.I understand there might be some kind of technical restriction here, but if we limited regen only to "starting hp" values it might prove beneficial and more "intended" of a regen skill.. Edited November 12, 2015 by JGWENTWORTH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matty 889 Posted November 12, 2015 If only you just took my offer to remove Pyro, the world would be a better place. 1 nothing_but_fail reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 12, 2015 Bob doesn't have 100% magic immunity, it has a chance (a mediocre chance at that) to get ultimate immunity each round. Same goes for Devil Servant.... which was listed by everyone as a race of significant problem.It was listed by 8/56 players. Changing regen like that would be a massive change to something that has existed for a long time in War3. Lowering regen values, maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problemon 1 Posted November 12, 2015 I dont think Impetus can be nerfed until valve completely remakes the whole smg and pistol system.What one person can do on Impetus with a mumble crosshair or a dot on the monitor is what makes it OP since the Scout is basicly run and gun weapon.Its like a deagle but with no recoil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Name 2616 Posted November 13, 2015 I love how everyone tries to hide their complaints about me behind nerfing a pretty mediocre race. The moment Impetus loses teleport, the race is fucked. That's why silences and entangles practically work as a hard counter against it. Adding charges is basically adding a built-in hard counter against the race into the race itself.to be fair, fuck you asshole stop killing me god damnit 4 Pozhinat, Swed, TurtleFrenzy and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pozhinat 6 Posted November 13, 2015 what a mean person, who would want ghoul to cry. Ghoul doesn't play War3 anymore so it doesnt matter. #Fallout4MasterRace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2015 Made (mostly minor) adjustments to each of the races at the top of the buff/nerf lists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaBadger 5 Posted November 13, 2015 So I know this isn't really a balance thing, but on my drive home I thought how neat it'd be to have Jarmen Kell have a variable zoom as an ult rather than a flat boom-you-have-lost-FOV-and-are-forced-into-strictly-sniper-ranges ult. Like, if it could cycle between level 3, 7, and 10. I don't know how feasible that is, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swed 2651 Posted November 13, 2015 Made (mostly minor) adjustments to each of the races at the top of the buff/nerf lists.Patch notes coming soon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neko 16 Posted November 14, 2015 Someone mentioned that Professor X should have a squeaky wheelchair sound which would be hilarious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Name 2616 Posted November 15, 2015 The complaints about ORC have to be trolling.Like... =mindblow= Bob having 100% Magic Immunity is really the only gripe I have with the race, it makes it over the top.Impet? It's not as bad as Master Sniper was, even though we all know Meown uses a hardware crosshair.Pyro is really obnoxious. It was okay maybe 4 months ago and now it seems it's even more obnoxious.I don't know why people are mad about Demon HunterRespawns don't really have a counter outside of black mage and are plentiful, it's a good way to counter priest/orc/devil servant and others (MAGNUS) As I Pm'd Face, regen giving 100 hp races 125hp is really strong and unbalancing. Damoi and Ares are good examples of very strong races who do not deserve 125hp. They basically exit the buy area with 115+ hp. Same goes for Devil Servant.... which was listed by everyone as a race of significant problem. DS really is a persistant threat due to its respawn, strong leach combined with regen. Regen serving as a straight up health boost more than a tactical or recovery ability really makes some races too strong imo.I understand there might be some kind of technical restriction here, but if we limited regen only to "starting hp" values it might prove beneficial and more "intended" of a regen skill..I feel like you learned nothing from this survey and its results Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stnmn 0 Posted November 15, 2015 I love how everyone tries to hide their complaints about me behind nerfing a pretty mediocre race. The moment Impetus loses teleport, the race is fucked. That's why silences and entangles practically work as a hard counter against it. Adding charges is basically adding a built-in hard counter against the race into the race itself.I hated the across the map knockback before I ever got butt pounded by your Impetus if that makes you feel any better. Makes the deagle/ak/awp worthless once you get bouncing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyburr 14 Posted November 15, 2015 I love how everyone tries to hide their complaints about me behind nerfing a pretty mediocre race. The moment Impetus loses teleport, the race is fucked. That's why silences and entangles practically work as a hard counter against it. Adding charges is basically adding a built-in hard counter against the race into the race itself.I'd rather have the knockback nerfed than the teleport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 16, 2015 Problem with the knockback is you basically have to push people upwards with a certain velocity (~250 to be specific) just to get them "off the ground". But 250 is enough to knock them up a decent amount. The knock upwards is always between 0 and 300. Most of the time it is probably between 200 and 300 though (assuming you are getting shot at). With even that slight amount of knockup, it can be quite a dramatic effect. Just "pushing" people on the ground has almost no effect on their aim, so the knockup is really necessary. The only reason impetus can get kills if you miss the first shot is because the knockup. Without the knockup, any miss would be a death warrant. Without the knockup, impetus isn't impetus. I'm not saying the knockup isn't a little strong, it is just there is a very sensitive scale between "useless" and "kind of strong" with the knockup, and without the knockup I think the race would be really, really bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites